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Updated : 10/26/16, 7:00 AM


    PBBans cancels Partnership with GGC 10/19/11, 12:59 AM by KEIOS

According to a Mongolian saying, you can't make a knot with just one hand. And as cooperation is the key for success, it is an inherent part of our name and our philosophy. Our project was founded to work together against cheaters (that's what "Gemeinsam gegen Cheater" means in english). Not only with leagues, gameserverproviders, gamedeveloppers or serveradmins but also and especially with other anticheat communities. Sadly this philosophy is not always shared, once other projects with similar intention take us for competitors rather than for partners.

Therefore we would like to inform you that PBBans canceled our partnership and will not use our banlist as an external banlist, nor allow our SGAs using theirs as external banlist.
Sadly we had to notice, that the termination of the partnership happened without prior notice and our project manager, despite the statements to the contrary of PBBans, was not informed about their intention. Indeed there were two emails sent but they were sent to our webmaster adress, on which hundreds of spam emails per day are sent to. In addition to that the email was sent via the real name of Maydax, which was unknown by the project management. This is why the emails were not prioritized by us and in consequence they were not read by us. But especially at this email adress we point out via autoreply that requests have to be made via support ticket to avoid important requests going unnoticed. An approach via one of the contact channels we usually used between PBBans and us would have been much more appropriate and would have had a possitive effect on the whole situation. All the more if there is something important to communicate, there are many ways to do so - assumed there is an interest in getting an answer.
We would like to dissent the accusation of stealing data too. Until now there was an agreement between PBBans and GGC which regulated the access to the ban list of each other. In contrast to us, PBBans has never offered us an interface to access their data, which forced us to use the public access to synchronize with them. After the access via the public port was not possible anymore, we had to guess, that blocking this access was a safety measure against DDoS attacks. Therefore we used an alternative path to align the banlists as we could not assume that there was the intention to block specifically our access. This would not have happened if we would have been informed in time. And we would not have tried to gain access when we were informed. Instead every link from our site to PBBans was forwarded to their news to the termination of the partnership without trying to talk to us.

Since Partnerships are founded on a Give and Take, in consequence PBBans won't get access to our Banlists, as long as they refuse access to their own.

To justify the termination of the Partnership, it was publicly claimed, that GGC would
encourage their Users not to stream to PBBans, since their Bans are implemented in our Lists as well. We want to make clear, that in the specific and criticised thread we do not encourage the User to stop streaming to PBBans nor did we do anything like that elsewhere. We just mentioned, that he, who is forced by his provider to choose only one Streaming Partner, still benefits from the Banlist from PBBans, since it was in our external Banlists as well. Just like PBBans Users who had a benefit from using our Banlist through PBBans external Banlists, without streaming to us.
By doing so, we can say that we emphasized the benefits for both sides of our former Partnership and not trying to prevent Users from registering at PBBans or other Anticheat-Communitys.
On the side of PBBans, maybe due to an inaccurate translation, it might have sounded like an appeal to not stream to them or exclusively stream to us, which is just not true. Quite contrary to this, we have stated explicitly since our foundation, that we are standig for cooperation and even manually helped countless Admins with setting up multistreaming on their Servers - of course to PBBans as well.

We shared Informations with them, looked for Communcation with them and even managed to get the one click streaming setup to PBBans into RCON Tools for BC2 for example. Unfortunately our efforts in this regard were quite one sided and so our Motivation to promote our Partner diminished with every further step from PBBans to make us look silly in public, instead of dealing directly with us, to discuss different point of views or possibilities to optimise our Cooperation. Even in this case we offered a conversation which was denied, so we can not lay down our differences at the moment. Banning our Staffmembers from PBBans IRC Channel without need didn't help either in this regard.

We will not return the like and try to polish our image by smudging PBBans. Mistakes have been made on both sides. Technically and humanly. By Individuals who misinterpreted the contest between likeminded as a rivalry between competitors and misunderstandings that occur when crossing language barriers. So we stay on course and emphasize that the fight against Cheaters is only possible when doing it together and encourage every Server Admin explicitly to get every Protection for their Servers they can get and to support every Anticheat Community they choose, by all means. We are all like-minded Volunteers with the same goal. We are all putting a lot of effort in our Projects and only the Cheaters do benefit, when misunderstanding, lack of communication, but also envy, defiance and arrogance tear us apart.

So we still reach out our hand to everyone who shares the same idea - even to PBBans - to fight with us, together against Cheaters.

P.S.: As a native german speaker i want to add, that sometimes meanings get lost in translations and Google Translator does not make up for reading in your own languages. This Text might differ a little from our original german Text. If you have Questions – ask before acting.
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10/19/11, 10:00 PM
What a shame that the partnership disolved.
Cheaters are the ultimate benofactor in the loss of the partnership between GGC and PBBans :(
Hoping for a resolution betweem two excellent anticheat companies...
10/19/11, 10:06 PM
shame @ pbbans...
10/20/11, 6:32 AM
there are 2 sides to every story. What happened either way is a loss in the end. The loss of EBL is bad but since stream to both not something that can not be overcomed. But think that this should have been kept in the respected forums and not taken to the P4F forum. Think this paints both parties in a bad light in the end.
10/20/11, 9:24 AM
They think you're forcing people to stream here instead of at PBBans but I've applied there and got declined because one of our members was apparently banned. Can't even stream there if I wanted to.

Happens to organistations/companies when they think they're big. They like to go on their own.
10/20/11, 10:28 AM
Very well said KEIOS
10/20/11, 6:04 PM
Can't se how a copy of our official news, on a gaming forum, put GGC in bad light? It's just as informative as the one here - but the info reaches more user, faster!
10/21/11, 12:06 PM
PBBANS are so up themselfs they are [its my way or the highway attitude] no great loss.
10/21/11, 2:56 PM
Well written and well said
10/23/11, 4:37 AM
I trust GGC and we plan to stick with them though the launch of BF3
10/23/11, 4:37 AM
10/29/11, 8:59 PM
i USED TO STREAM TO pbbaNS , BUT maydax is full of himself. Even with logs and screenshots , they would take no action. They are not working for server admins and indeed seemed to be more aligned to the cheater and hacker. They may even be supplying the hacking community with data to thwart anticheat sites. I have been extremely happy with GGC and loss of pbans is no big deal. They just duplicate what Evenbalance catches anyway. Also the WhiteLight project is still hard at work catching cheaters and works with EvenBalance and not Pbans. I think pbbans will eventually fade away and quickly be just a distant memory. Thanks for your hard work Gemeinsam gegen Cheater!
1/11/11, 4:01 PM
It is indeed a shame that the partnership ended, a meeting via teamspeak/ventilo is always preferable to a written dialogue which can be easily misinterpreted, especially when the two parties don't speak the same native language!
As for statement #10 above, this is quite frankly nonsense, and I think GGC should remove this comment.
2/11/11, 9:08 AM

Becuase the less Banlists combined. The less all the systems work, I have used Pbbans and found the setup and streaming good. Howvever its a shame when it becomes a competition. When sites become to busy with trying to make money. Like the DMW of the past..Forgetting what they setup for.

We now switched to GGC, and as a new user..just like to say ...I like your way of thinking.

2/11/11, 9:21 AM
Thanks ReS, but I'd like to add that we don't earn money with this project. We keep it alive in our free time and with the help of our community. You, the streaming admins, are GGC. We just coordinate things.
11/13/11, 12:48 AM
Now I'm commenting the right post:

Im a little ticked off by pbbans agenda on this, as a casual gamer just starting up my own game server for other casuals and don't even have a website set up let alone a community yet. Pbbans is going down the dangerous road of exclusion that could hurt the gaming community as a whole who are looking for fair gaming.
I'm just glad there is an alternative that works pretty much the same in fact easier to set up.
11/20/11, 4:59 PM
It is unfortunate that this very public airing is happening as that type of thing asks someone to take sides. Taking sides in this case does not benefit anyone except the hackers out there who would love us to stop multi-streaming cause we decided to remove one or the other of the anti-cheat providers to show our ire. This then just put our eggs in one basket. Multi-streaming is the best method of stopping hackers.... period.... so please server ops, keep using every anti-cheat you can and ignore the temptation to take sides.
Zaitsev Jr.
12/13/11, 4:08 AM
... and then i LOL'ed.

Maybe it had something to do with your mentality.
But there is always room for improvement.

Oh, by the way, have you ever considered, that your banlist may lack the quality a deliverable within your claims should have ?
I tried to tell you, but you just don't listen ...
Like a stubborn little girl ... So there ;) Cheers !
12/16/11, 7:20 PM
@Zaitsev Jr

Please do not attack someone in the comments section of the News/Information. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but insulting someone or their community is not a good way to voice your opinion.
12/20/11, 9:40 PM
I have had my application to stream to pbbns rejected 3 times now for apparently associating with a hacker. Anyways, GGC was a nice easy set up and is proving to be a good replacement for punksbusted stream on my server.

Keep up the good work GGC!!
12/25/11, 2:11 PM
Thb, I dont' think this is such a bad thing.

I haven't gamed for years, now I started playing Battlefield3 again and together with a bunch of friends we rent a server.

For PBBans you need to fullfill so many requirements, and for what?, to have a server stream and get it's bans to an anti cheat site?, no matter who, what or where you steam from, the more the better right? - I feel PBBans is to arrogant and controlling, here it wasn't just easy to set up, it was painless, like it should be.

For me PBBans may wither away, as long as the bans they have on their list are also here.
3/1/12, 2:04 PM
Keep up with the great work GGC

I used to stream to PBBans aswell, untill, they terminated my stream with them.

I agree, they are arrogant and up them selves.
Good Riddens PBBans!.
1/19/12, 1:01 PM
5/2/12, 1:10 AM
I haven't been associated with GGC very long but have been computer gaming for a long time. I run the original Hands of God clan which started with UT99 years ago and we are still active with other games. I have seen MANY anti-cheat sites go by the wayside, mainly because of being too rigid. Hacking is very flexible and so must anti-cheat. The whole topic is sort of like submarine warfare..(They build a stronger sonar, we build a quieter sub). It is my opinion only that PBbans has made a terrible mistake by not aligning itself with as many other anti-cheat communities as possible. Until we are (or at least perceived as) united as an anti-cheat society, the hackers/cheaters will most surely benefit.
2/20/12, 1:26 PM
Sad that some people can't work together. I've seen this happen in many communities, modders, small indy games, anti cheat mutators etc.. One side gets increasingly more arrogant and controlling like it's a fight for dominance, and then slowly fades into obscurity, just wait and see...

Love GGC, it amuses me everyday I play to see all the cheaters trying to connect over and over mwahahaha.
3/15/12, 9:42 PM
PBBans is not as perfect as people say, in fact you need a website and forum before you allowed to stream to them.. Oke, now for the people that only have a game server and not a clan.. Goodby you dont have it what they whant and so your not allowed to stream..

Also, they say to me you can't ddos us because we are protected, test for 5 min shows us that they arent protected and you can ddos them and turn them offline.

I recommend to stay here with GGC and with GV, they are both perfect for you're game server. We do not need PBBans just because of ther bad work and high ego!.

2/5/12, 1:55 AM
6/23/12, 6:10 PM
pbbans... noob.. .-) i always afraid about cheats... and i can't play relaxed.. soo got my support...
2/7/12, 9:55 PM
2/7/12, 9:57 PM
2/7/12, 9:58 PM
4/25/13, 5:21 AM
6/2/15, 12:44 AM
I know it's an old thread, but still wanted to comment.

I don't think that GGC-Stream had some big losses when the partnership ended. I hear a lot of complains about PBbans, their support is bad, they don't do anything to support people when they are asking for help. They are bad a listening to people when it comes to program fails from their program (Punkbuster).
There is no reason that a well organized community like GGC should suffer under such a bad reputation. I think that GGC is way more effective, Punkbuster fails a lot on catching the cheaters and hackers. As someone mentioned, often you can even show them evidence on photos and videos, but they still wont ban the cheaters/hackers, because their program is "perfect"..... Haha...

Only downside is that GGC no longer have PBbans master ban index, which would have been nice while a lot of people that are banned here isn't on PBbans master ban index as well as a lot of the people that are banned in PBbans master index isn't banend here. Would have been nice with one large shared ban index between PBbans and GGC-Stream. Would have been a bit more effective in my opinion.